Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles in Acts 5:34-39. Thanks also for your series on New Perspectives. Is the Word of God a revelation to man? Darris McNeely - Dec 7, 2022 | In this class we will discuss Acts 5:26-41 thru Acts 6:1-7 and notice the following events: the apostles being persecuted by the Sanhedrin for teaching in Christ's name; how a Pharisee named Gamaliel spoke up on behalf of the apostles; and the choosing of seven men to help the disciples distribute food. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Which owner would be upset if we finished early? Thus, Matthew was providing a second written witness, confirming the testimony of Jesus.). Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them. May I ask which verses of Scripture you are basing this on? Hillel disagreed on this aspect, due to many converts in the Torah ( Ruth, Obidiah, Abraham etc.) Thanks, Andrew. On example: I think that it is likely he on his way to being a master of Greco-Roman rhetoric prior to conversion. I am enjoying the discussion and information/opinions/wisdom here. Saul (Paul) Persecutes the Church [edit | edit source] In Chapter 9 of Acts, we come into close contact with Saul, later known as Paul, for the first time. What ends up as what we call Christianity and Judaism today both some out of the turmoil of the first two centuries. And we can but make some comparisons in ourselves. That is incorrect. Dear Philip, Below are quotes and links from two other blog gentlemen (Christopher, and UnashamedofJesus) who disagree with each other. Hillel, like Moses, died at the age of 120 and for the last 40 years of his life (c.30 BC-10 AD) he led the Sanhedrin, the ruling elders who determined on political and religious cases in Jerusalem. How long will you waver between two opinions? What is a common analogy for a permanent decision? Match. Upgrade to remove ads. Its all a part of Gods perfect timing and plan. Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) Who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy? Created by. Jesus said its TWO commandments, with the greatest, most important, first command to .1) first, love God with everything youve got, and .2) second, love people. The Twelve Apostles were absolutely NOT sent out right away after being appointed Apostles, according to Mark chapters 3 through 6, and Luke chapters 6 through 9. What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? The revelation of the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12), most probably in Arabia. This is not the sort of education most people would even want, so it is not really a college degree. This is simply not the case and you need to read a bit more widely than you have. I agree, It does make sense a Pharisee would be expected to be married, though. I think Jesus was God incarnate, but the preaching in Acts 2-3 that brings the increasingly violent reaction is that the Jews killed their true messiah and God raised him from the dead, *and* that he is coming back to judge the nation (starting with Caiaphas?). It addresses exactly what I was thinking, and its thorough. Not to mention I highly doubt you have a Phd in any area of academia or even known any grasp of Hebrew or Greek. Gamaliel was the grandson of Hillel, the most renowned rabbi in Jewish history. Or is it possible that Paul privately harbored more overall agreement with Gamaliel/Hillel than with Shammaite Pharisees, and that Paul felt himself to be a lone dissenter in rare cases (Christians) against his former masters legal hermeneutics of mercy? He studied under the best Jewish teachers including the well-respected teacher, Gamaliel . :the character and position of his father; his own early training in a Grecian city; and his subsequent training under Gamaliel at Jerusalem. Therefore, what Saul was taught was not based off of Gods truth. In Paul's letters we see that he had a deep understanding of the law. Perhaps Gamiliels views influenced Pauls personal comments on marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 (Polhill, Paul and his Letters, 30). My problem is with your assumption that just because Paul differs from Gamaliel makes him a radical Shammaite Pharisee. Gamaliel . Was he working around/with the High Priests, or would he still have been studying under Gamaliel? About The Author Tovia Singer - Rabbi Tovia Singer is well known as the Founder and Director of Outreach Judaism, an international organization dedicated to countering the efforts of fundamentalist Christian groups and cults who specifically target Jews for conversion. Paul did a much better job of marketing himself, and he wrote about himself hundreds of times. Maase Hatorah -works of the law 2. You are using anachronistic terms to describe a pre-70 Jewish teacher like Paul. N. T. Wright describes the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah, as Hillel had said (What Saint Paul Really Said, 26). Even if someone wants to be argumentative and say we cant prove that Judas wasnt there at the time, we certainly cant prove that Judas WAS there. Paul may very well have studied under Gamaliel and from there established the groundwork from which to build a new movement. So what is the application of this parable? Paul is the model pastor for many modern Pauls like; a) Bob Coy, who still owns all the assets and controls all the money at his cult known as Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, in spite of his recent resignation as Senior Pastor there due to adultery with multiple woman and other major sins that he still has never specifically admitted to personally. Gamaliel was himself a Pharisee in the tradition of the great Hillel. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do- this I keep on doing. [Romans 7:15-19] (Response- One more time! I agree with you. Acts 21:39 - "But Paul said, ' am a Jew from Tarsus, in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city . Paul might indeed have been a follower of the School of Shammai, but his mentioning Gamaliels name might have been intended to his (Pauls) having studies in Jerusalem when Gamaliel was head of the Sanhedrin. What does tents mean in the Bible? One of them responded to me QUOTE: In short you believe Paul is the Anti Christ.. Not a new theory Mostly just misunderstanding Pauls writings..He never preached to abolish The Torah thats a misunderstanding https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, The other one responded to me QUOTE: When you referred to Jesus words about the greatest commandment, you neglected to mention the context. whats d equivalence of studying at d feet of Gamaliel to todays education. Based on whats happening in Israel, it looks like Jesus could be returning soon. But is it correct to characterize Paul as an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, namely, that Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. Why insist that the words of this one special person automatically override the words of Jesus and everyone else in all history, and he doesnt need to have a second witness to confirm his testimony? Note I was raised and somewhat educated Irish Roman Catholic, so no axe to grind here! The command given by our Lord and Savior Is not a Pharisee speaking alone It came rather through your apostles Matthew Peter and John, If a Pharisee boasts proudly Those men added nothing to my message He doesnt speak for Jesus His words are nothing more than garbage, Bibliography All quotes in quotation marks are from the writings of the Apostles Matthew John and Peter in the Bible, mostly the Red Letter words of Jesus. He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness. [22] The Roman Catholic church views him as a Saint and listed him in the Roman Martyrology for August 3. I got lots of note on it I thank God and I praise God. and as long as the food was not sacrificed to idols and was kosher you could eat with gentiles. His most recent book is The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World (Rockridge, 2022). . How can I make them understand that they should deal with Paul Worship the same way that I deal with smoking weed? Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. This is what happens when you dont study near eastern culture and context before reading scripture. This Evangelical Mantra has been accepted by the collective subconscious mind of The Evangelical Church without thought, question, reflection, or even 2 witnesses from the Scripture itself. Long has taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998, specializing in Bible and Biblical languages. Rabbinical eras Chazal Zugot Tannaim Amoraim Savoraim Geonim Rishonim Acharonim v t e In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor it is not uncommon for a student to disagree with his teachers viewpoints. (Two other saint also removed at that timer were St. Philomena and St. Christopher. Since I am teaching through Paul and his Letters again this fall, I thought I would revisit that older post and provide some additional thoughts on Gamaliel as background for reading Paul. - Bit Chaser Mar 11 '17 at 7:32 The Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the New Testament (Acts 5:34; 22:3). But there is a notable difference in Paul from pre- to post-conversion. at the feet of Gamaliel"). It is said that in the 5th century, by a miracle, his body had been discovered and taken to Pisa Cathedral. The cornerstone of Judaism then and now is that although it has guidelines it also leaves rooms for free thought. Reblogged this on By the Mighty Mumford and commented: AN INTELLECTUAL OF THE TIME, PAUL LEARNED FROM THE BEST AND MOST COMPASSIONATE TEACHER AROUND! Kind of long and wordy. When Saul encountered the Lords voice in Acts chapter 9, it makes me question if Saul had been hearing the Lords voice sooner, but he was not listening? In my reading, it would seem that many doubt the claim that one as zealous as Paul could not have sat at the feet of Gamaliel. So Ill smoke with them, but I wont let the weed alter my own mind, because I didnt inhale! In order to be accepted in the Establishment church fellowship, you have to smoke the weed of Paul Worship- just be true to yourself and dont inhale., Maybe I could speak in code, like they did in the New Testament church with the fish symbol. Social Science. This is your only warning before being banned for incivility. When and where did they first meet. Gymnasiums were built for these people who participated in game in which they engaged in sports naked. Did paul study under gamaliel? Gamaliel. I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. Rabbis are Reubenites. Basically, he said that if the movement is from God then it cannot be stopped, if it is not then it will not succeed. Not the voice of the accuser, Boss Paul the Pharisee, Telling the redeemed people of God About what they used to be. St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! It seems that people want to limit the intervention of God in the lives of people he intends to use. On analogy to Supreme Court Justices dissenting in limited and specific cases (anomolies) as a dissenting minority against a majority with whom the dissent would normally agree? How long was Paul in Arabia? My view is very similar to the traditional Orthodox view of the texts of Scripture for almost 2000 years. They also believed gentiles could convert and be in covenant but there needed to be structure to convert. Gamaliel. Your comments are ridiculous and borderline stupidity. ), STEP 3) Paul said; All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. [Romans 3:23] (Response- Again the same question; What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? So youd rather channel Constantine, anti semetic church fathers and bad book from amazon from authors who know absolutely nothing about Judaism or what they are even reading. Paul wrote 29 chapters to this church that he founded and then left after 18 months, and also we have Lukes biographical account starting in Acts 18:1. Gamaliel was a Pharisee and a grandson of the famous Rabbi Hillel. There is also a fair bit of controversy about Paul. Somehow Barnabas who was at the Pentecost knew Saul! Like a little squirrel dressed up As a flying superhero We give ourselves the Title And zoom around the atmosphere Oh! Third, as John Polhill observes, several rulings from Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, the Jewish commentary on the Law. He states that if the apostolic movement is from God then it cannot be stopped, if it is not form God then it cannot succeed. By claiming to have been under the teaching of this particular rabbi, Paul is claiming to have been educated in a most impressive way. When the homeowner returned in the evening, he was furious. Jesus did not see even the Hebrew Scriptures, what we call the Old Testament, as a whole unit or book that was all equal or all truly Gods words. Jesus spoke of The Law, or The Law and the Prophets, holding these 2 sections of the Old Testament above the third, least important sections the Writings. And Jesus held the Psalms, the first book of the Writings section, above the other books in the Writings section in importance, since some parts of some Psalms are prophetic. b) Greg Laurie, the Boss of a wide-ranging personal cult empire that generally goes by the name of Harvest. Greg lives in Newport Beach, commutes by helicopter, and exploits the very large church he founded in Riverside from a distance, while he does his own thing in Orange County and travels around wherever he feels like, building a personal business empire with himself as the center, not Jesus. [1 & 2 Corinthians.}. Sometimes, Paul was wrong. It was very interesting to me that it was likely that Paul was raised in a very Jewish home, trained in all the Jewish ways and teachings, and a student of Gamalieland yet he did react to Christianity in such a violent and zealous form. Im glad no one disagrees with me. . Paul may be seeing this as another threat to the Law and acts as his predecessors did to preserve the culture and traditions of the Pharisaical movement and interpretations. I was attracted to the school because they put Pauls mantra of All Scripture is God-breathed above everything else, and I wanted to heed Pauls command and Preach the Word like Paul. I dont think that he is a Christian pharisee however, I believe that he just holds close to the teachings that he received for over half of his life before his conversion. Paul, Silas, and Timothy, now joined by Luke, sailed from Troas to Greece and made their way to Philippi. Somebody did the calculations of Paul's education, and said he basically had the equivalent of two Ph.D.'s by the time he was 21 years of age. gamaliel was the greatest of the teachers of the pharisees, perhaps of all time, because he was said to have known the law at a doctorate level, so it was with great wisdom that he told the. Definition of tentmaker 1 : one that makes tents. I find it interesting to look at this perspective that you pointed out, PLong: He was an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view. Everyone seems to give Saul a bad rap (and rightly so) for his actions towards believers before his conversion, however, this at least gives us a context to understand him better. As has been said multiple times above, it is fairly common for a pupil to break off from his teachers opinion. (11). Calling him a good man (Acts 11:24), a prophet and teacher (13:1), an apostle (14:14) and one through whom God worked miracles (15:12), Acts loads him with accolades. Jesus warned us about the Pharisees in Matthew chapters 15 & 16, and quoted the Prophet Isaiah regarding them: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. The first thing was that they might be with Him personally, together, for His entire earthly ministry, from the time of John the Baptist until Jesus rose to heaven. ." b. I wont say Im high on Jesus, and so using a mind-altering drug for recreational purposes is wrong, because Jesus is better. I dont want to be rejected by my peers. is his own writings Acts 22 22-29. now there is the whole case of Paul a true liar. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Gamaliel, as it appears, did most toward establish-. Therefore, he must have planted these groups himself. So when Paul wrote his two letters to the Church in Corinth, who was overseeing all aspects of the church? It is a Rembrandt. Paul is inferior, Jesus is superior. 3). I can use football analogies even if I have never actually been a football player. The answer to that question is, they have been listening to the voice of Paul, rather than the voices of Jesus and the Original Apostles. Mainstream Judaism also reject Josephus and its evident that he was clearly Jewish. Not 1 as in 3 in 1. And Christians do it with pride as there is no Trinity and the Bible doesnt say there is OR that God is more than 1. But if we want to get closest to The Source, Jesus himself, it makes sense that we should look first to the eyewitness testimony of two of His appointed Apostles who walked with Him faithfully for over 3 years, Matthew & John. There is no conservative or liberal spectrum regarding Judaism or the 32 sects of Judaism during the time of Yeshua. Removing that aspect will cause misunderstanding of what they were teaching. Jesus is in agreement with the Law and the Prophets and came to fulfill them. [Matthew 5:17-20]. 3) the apostle Paul prides himself on having sat at the feet of Gamaliel. Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it (Proverbs 22.6). did I miss something? Exactly what Issa (p) al Masih said NOT TO! etc. Yet even here, not even Paul, not even once, ever said that All Scripture is EQUAL in authority, priority, and importance. Now Ive got 3 slots open. We cant read without any number of lenses (Suppositions) coloring our reading. Forgive me, but it easier to cite the following from the Wikipedia. In fact in the book of John Jesus is pointed out as a Pharisee. This was where the institution derived its name, gymnos being the Greek word for naked. For Jews, nakedness was religiously offensive (11). By Paul being Jewish and involved in the gymnasium, he was going against the norm. Gamaliel established a number of lenient ordinances, in particular . Dont be put off by the ravings of Paul the Pharisee that so many Bible-believing Christians push so hard. Right the man has been in Israel for over 20 years and studied in a Yeshiva and created a University be he knows nothing about mainstream Judaism Yet you cant read a sentence of Hebrew to save your life. Same question; What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? STEP 6) LOOP- REPEAT steps 1 through 5, until your dance partner gives up, the audience gets bored, or the music stops. And I need to save a throne for my mom, or shell be mad. THey were called Nazarites or Netzarim (plural) or believers of the MEssianic movement (of that time) and were a sect of Judaism. There were several rebellions in Jerusalem regarding the building of gymnasiums. Yes I believe that Paul was influenced by his teacher Gamaliel and his experience of being a Pharisee, but I do not think these were the only factors shaping how and what Paul taught and wrote. (Acts 9:20-22) I think his training with Gamaliel was a large influence on his passion though. Jesus spoke the 3 chapters of the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7, including 7:12. Yet he verbatim stated who he was and no one in the court said otherwise but well take your word for it. Lets listen to the voice of Jesus first, and get our priorities straight. Second, Tarsus also exposed Paul to different cultures. Why do you want Paul to act like a Pope in Corinth, someone who oversees all aspects of the church? I dont see this in the text. Paul, before his conversion, tended to be more like the Shammaites in that he was fairly violent and full of persecution. Since November 2021, Reading Acts is edited by Sarah Westphal. Its not easy for me now in 1973, as a young man just trying to start out in ministry. As to pauls seemingly at odds relationship with his teacher Gamaliel, it is no odd thing for a student to differ from a teacher, especially if the student is quite a zealous one. get up set if you want ,,but Paul was that , dont believe it ? This is not true, you have no idea what you are talking about. What was his last name? To think that all Jewish people were completely unified is to share the same fantasy Christians have about the early church. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. But it begs the question Why would early Christians claim Rabban as one of their own? Which one is it? My question is who is the artist who did the painting pictured here, possibly of Gamaliel? Dmando0110. In Galatians 1:21, Paul wrote, "I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia .". I will leave that to the Ruah, my rabbi and the Yeshiva (that ive been attending for years) I attend. . .1) There is more New Testament text written specifically about the Church in Corinth than any other church, by far. Minhags- customs attached to moses and the oral law to make them valid that were infact against Torah and corrupt. In support of this alternative, it has long been noted that Galatians 1:16-24 appears to describe a . It bothered Peter so much that G-d sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith. I tried to look for the beginning (Acts 1), because a friend Im discipling has asked to go through Acts with me, and this looks like good supplement material. As sort of my own counter point against my first paragraph, It is not surprising then that Paul acts out the way he does. Maybe Shammites were more conservative, Hillites more liberal, but that is only relative from the perspective of the Essenes they were all too liberal on the Law! Bibliography: Bruce Chilton, Rabbi Jesus 28-47; Gamaliel in ABD 2:904. Deuteronomy 29:29. Its not prejudice, youre blatantly misquoting Paul, Shammi and Hillel. So it is possible they left out the respected Pharisee Gamaliel so that he would not oppose crucifixion. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Pauls education. [Acts 20:31 vs Acts 19:8-10], .4) Paul abandoning the Church in Corinth after a year and a half for no obvious reason, and going off on another long trip, mostly on his own, without appointing anyone else in Corinth as overseer, or giving anyone else any specific authority in the Church in Corinth. If one lies and is decieved that it somehow abounds to Gods glory, that lying isnt a sin ESPECIALLY where God is concerned, what WONT they lie about? (And Peter certainly doesnt point to the words of some other man, a Pharisee at that, -Paul- and say that this other mans word is the word of God.). If you Torah-observant Jews dont believe that the Yeshua (Jesus) of the 4 Gospels is really the Jewish Messiah, can you back that up with Torah and Nabiim ? Moseley is not wrong: the earliest Christ followers were Jewish and no one tried to convert to Christianity, but that is because there was no Christianity to convert to at that point. The majority of the rest of the book of Acts and the New Testament tells much about Paul's effective ministry as he served the Lord. Polhil states that perhaps around the age of fourteen to sixteen Paul went to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3), (30). The Olympic games were created to honor the gods and Emperors were considered gods. Comment Localiser Sa Nintendo Switch Perdu, What Does A Collectors Potion Do In Adopt Me, Dr John Campbell Email Address, Articles H
houses for sale in tasmania under $50,000